WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
By Ian Lockwood September 28 2008
Webber’s tale of bad luck continued today when he was forced to retire from the inaugural Singapore Grand Prix with a gearbox problem while strongly placed and in with a serious shout of a podium finish and his best result to date. Second place appeared to be on the cards for Webber after his team made an excellent call and pitted him in the immediate aftermath of Nelson Piquet crashing out.
Webber’s tale of bad luck continued today when he was forced to retire from the inaugural Singapore Grand Prix with a gearbox problem while strongly placed and in with a serious shout of a podium finish and his best result to date. Second place appeared to be on the cards for Webber after his team made an excellent call and pitted him in the immediate aftermath of Nelson Piquet crashing out.
They did so before the pit lane was closed and therefore vaulted up the order into sixth and seventh places respectively. The only other driver to pit prior to the Safety Car period was eventual race winner, Fernando Alonso, whose Renault team-mate ironically had caused the interruption to racing and in so doing paved the way for Alonso to record his first race of 2008 at the first-ever night-time F1 Grand Prix.
The weekend didn't get off to the best of starts for Webber when he crashed on only his second timed lap in first practice. He admitted he had carried too much speed into turn 18 and instead of going up the escape road, tried to make it round the corner and slammed into the barrier where the circuit goes underneath the grandstand. This meant that Webber was out for the remainder of the session and with only one hour between the end of the first and start of the second session, the team was unable to complete the repairs in time. He finally re-appeared on the track with 27 minutes of the session remaining. He completed one long run before going out in the final few minutes and set the 11thfastest time of 1min 47.137s, just ahead of the other Red Bull cars. Webber made up what time he lost on Friday in Saturday's final session, reeling off 21 laps and ending it eighth fastest with a time of 1min 45.450, just ahead of Toro Rosso duo, Sebastian Vettel and Sebastien Bourdais.
For only the fourth time this season, Webber failed to make it into the top 10 qualifying session; traffic on both his out-laps in Q2 hampering his timed lap and so he was to start the 61-lap Grand Prix in 13th position, one place ahead of Coulthard. Said Webber post qualifying, "The team told me to push hard on my first out-lap in Q2 because Heikki (Kovalainen) was coming up on his flying lap and I didn't want to compromise him or allow him to get ahead of me as he would then compromise my flying lap. I was on for a 44.8 (which would have got me into the top 10) but I lost the tyres in the last sector. I had virtually the same thing happen again on my second run, this time with Lewis.
Webber made a good start in the middle of the pack, maintaining 13th position after the initial jostling saw the lightly-fuelled Alonso move ahead while Jenson Button dropped a position. While at the front of the pack, Felipe Massa and Lewis Hamilton, were already beginning to run away with the race, Jarno Trulli was holding up a train of seven cars, the Toyotadriver heavily fuelled and on a one-stop strategy. It took until lap seven before Nico Rosberg found his way past, closely followed by his Williams team-mate, Kazuki Nakajima and Alonso, leaving Webber as the next one to try his luck.
However, the race was brought under the control of the Safety Car a few laps later when Piquet crashed; a lap after Alonso had made his first scheduled pit-stop. Red Bull Racing strategists were quick to pit their two drivers before the pit-lane closed and this propelled both Webber and Coulthard up the order as, when the race went back to green, the majority of the field pitted.
Nico Rosberg and Robert Kubica both had to stop for fuel while the pit lane was closed and were duly issued with a penalty stop. Although it effectively scuppered Kubica's chances of a podium finish, amazingly for Rosberg the penalty hardly affected his race; the German making the most of the clear air ahead of him to punch in some quick laps before having to take his penalty some eight laps after the race had gone back to green.
Amid all this, Webber was nicely positioned in sixth place and poised to move into fourth after Rosberg and Kubica had taken their penalties. Second place was looking a reality because behind race leader Alonso, Trulli and Giancarlo Fisichella had yet to make their first stop. However, disaster struck before this scenario could be played out when, on lap 27, Webber appeared to run off the track and slid down to 14thposition. He slowed and made his way back to the pits to retire with a gearbox problem, having lost seventh and then fifth gear.
"It's cost us a fantastic result today," said a bitterly disappointed Webber afterwards, "I had good pace in the second stint and I was actually going six laps longer than Fernando in that stint. It would have been nice to have been up there sharing the podium with him. I've never stopped with a gearbox problem with this car and what a time for it to happen."
Bookmark or share this story with:
Digg
Delicious
Facebook
Reddit
StumbleuponRelated Articles:
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: markwebber#1 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2008 07:46
I'm so tired and wearied of being disappointed.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: wilber au (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2008 08:02
i feel your pain there mate,it breaks my heart.i dont know how such a good guy can be so cursed.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: jimbro (IP Logged)
Date: 29/09/2008 12:29
7 years i have being waiting & for the first time i really think it is never going to happen. somethings were never meant to be, have you ever known webber to get that lucky with the pace car before, its like the gods said no way son your out of order, no luck for you.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: ck11 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/09/2008 22:22
I think that webber will be retiring at the end of next year (unless he wants to driver for a midfield team). From what i have read, none of the top teams want to offer him a seat. Honda either want alonso, heidfield, rosberg or vettel and believe the other drivers arent capable of doing the job.
In my opinion, he is one of those drivers who never had the car to determine his true potential. Just hope that he can atleast match vettel's pace so people show some recognition before he retires.
In my opinion, he is one of those drivers who never had the car to determine his true potential. Just hope that he can atleast match vettel's pace so people show some recognition before he retires.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: markwebber#1 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 08:18
Mmmm...I'm not convinced his day is run yet.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: LoudHoward (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 09:59
I think that webber will be retiring at the end of next year (unless he wants to driver for a midfield team).
If that was his requirement for retirement, then I think he'd be long gone.
I don't see him doing a Fisi though.
[www.patronise.us] - Come for the detailed comical analysis. Stay a long time for the inconsistant updates.
If that was his requirement for retirement, then I think he'd be long gone.
I don't see him doing a Fisi though.
[www.patronise.us] - Come for the detailed comical analysis. Stay a long time for the inconsistant updates.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: FormulaFan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 13:56
Podium? I doubt it.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Jock_298 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 14:38
Quote:I don't.FormulaFan
Podium? I doubt it.
In Vino Veritas
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: jez33 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 15:12
At some point you've got to stop with the "what if's".
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: FormulaFan (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 16:24
Quote:At some point you've got to stop with the "what if's". Topics with headlines like these are extremely idiotic, even though fanboys will love it.Jock_298Quote:I don't.FormulaFan
Podium? I doubt it.
Perhaps DC was denied of a podium, too...
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Alison G S (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 18:33
Comments from Ted Kravitz about the cause of the gearbox problem.
And yes I have been a little selective in what I have quoted from his column!!
Quote:There was an interesting cause to Mark Webber’s gearbox failure.
It was the bumps. Red Bull’s seamless shift gearbox is so delicate (as they all are), that if the driver changes gear while under a shock load from hitting a bump, it tends to smash the associated gear to pieces.
Red Bull discovered this at a previous test in Jerez, and actually wrote a piece of software that would tell the gearbox to refuse a shift if it was being shock-loaded from a bump.
Unfortunately software will always lose out to the brute forces of physics, and Red Bull duly suffered their first mechanical failure of the season.
Particularly frustrating, because Red Bull had done the hard part and had both drivers set for podium positions, so they really should have got more than two points.
And yes I have been a little selective in what I have quoted from his column!!
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 20:57
thanks for the post re 'RBR gearbox'. very interesting. without any technical expertise in these matters i would've thought that no software would be bullet proof in a situation as described due to the velocity of the car and the randomness of the actual moment of 'shock load'. surely this would be an extremely low nanosecond activity.
it would be appreciated if some of the tech wizards here could enlighten us as to this scenario being doable.
it would be appreciated if some of the tech wizards here could enlighten us as to this scenario being doable.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Jock_298 (IP Logged)
Date: 01/10/2008 23:05
Quote:FormulaFan
At some point you've got to stop with the "what if's". Topics with headlines like these are extremely idiotic, even though fanboys will love it.
Perhaps DC was denied of a podium, too...
Are you calling Growler an 'idiot' ?
In Vino Veritas
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: SydneyF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 02:55
It has previously guessed that the bumps had contributed to the gearbox failure, so interesting to see this confirmed.
Was DC's problem in FP3 also gearbox, or some other mechanical problem?
In response to K1's point, I agree that it's unrealistic for any software to be able to fully anticipate random physical actions. However, the bottom line is that the other teams appear to have developed more robust hardware/software gear-box solutions than RBR, so we have more work to do before Singapore 2009.
The good news is that, fingers crossed, this small chink in our armour shouldn't affect us for the remaining races this season.
PS. I have always respected growler as a man of high intellect with impressive observational and reporting skills, as proven by his placing in the tipping comp!
Was DC's problem in FP3 also gearbox, or some other mechanical problem?
In response to K1's point, I agree that it's unrealistic for any software to be able to fully anticipate random physical actions. However, the bottom line is that the other teams appear to have developed more robust hardware/software gear-box solutions than RBR, so we have more work to do before Singapore 2009.
The good news is that, fingers crossed, this small chink in our armour shouldn't affect us for the remaining races this season.
PS. I have always respected growler as a man of high intellect with impressive observational and reporting skills, as proven by his placing in the tipping comp!
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: -Whitey- (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 03:06
Rosberg came out of the pits just in front of DC but he would have came out just behind Webber if Webber's car did not break... Rosberg finished 2nd...so its common sense that Webber would have finished on the podium!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:02:03:08:46 by -Whitey-.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:02:03:08:46 by -Whitey-.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: -Whitey- (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 03:07
oh yeah my above post was aimed at Jez and Formulafan :-)
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: K1 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 08:17
it really would be laughable if it wasn't so serious! how could the stewards let williams run for at least 10laps before notification of the penalty?
it is not as though there needed to be any adjudication process to be entered into. the pit lane was closed, rosberg entered and departed, ergo a stop and go penalty. no ifs no buts.
the ramifications of their actions could be parlayed into serious $$$ at the end of the season.simply not good enough FIA. the series is fastly becoming a joke in so many ways and it grieves me to say that.
it is not as though there needed to be any adjudication process to be entered into. the pit lane was closed, rosberg entered and departed, ergo a stop and go penalty. no ifs no buts.
the ramifications of their actions could be parlayed into serious $$$ at the end of the season.simply not good enough FIA. the series is fastly becoming a joke in so many ways and it grieves me to say that.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: jez33 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 08:17
What if...
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Jock_298 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 08:51
Quote:jez33
What if...
Nice one Jezz.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:02:08:53:14 by Jock_298.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Jock_298 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 08:55
Quote:K1
it really would be laughable if it wasn't so serious! how could the stewards let williams run for at least 10laps before notification of the penalty?
it is not as though there needed to be any adjudication process to be entered into. the pit lane was closed, rosberg entered and departed, ergo a stop and go penalty. no ifs no buts.
the ramifications of their actions could be parlayed into serious $$$ at the end of the season.simply not good enough FIA. the series is fastly becoming a joke in so many ways and it grieves me to say that.
It did seem to take a very long time for them to begin investigating the incident. After that notification came up the actual penalty was handed down within minutes. What could have caused the delay in actually investigating the incident ?
In Vino Veritas
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 11:08
Whitey, you are totally ignoring the issues with the RB4 breaks toward the end of the race. Also the possibility of tyre degradation or some other racing event.
What if Piquet never crashed? MW would have brought her home in a respectable what... 11th?
There you see, what if situations cut both ways and prove nothing at all.
The only thing we know is Webber chalked up another DNF.
What if Piquet never crashed? MW would have brought her home in a respectable what... 11th?
There you see, what if situations cut both ways and prove nothing at all.
The only thing we know is Webber chalked up another DNF.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: mocca (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 12:33
If Piquet hadn't crashed Ferrari would of blitzed and taken a 1-2.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: ck11 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 12:44
Some of the statements below should clarify the webber problem. As for clowns who claim that webber finishing on the podium were "ifs and buts from fanboys", please read christian horners comments below:
Courtesy of AFCA from autosport forum:
It wasn't a bump, it was a tube ! When Webber wanted to get engaged in third gear whilst braking down for a corner a tube went past exactly at that spot. Horner: ''Its electronics sent out some kind of signal which our gearbox control system misunderstood. Instead of engaging in third gear it engaged in seventh gear.''
Due to the wrong pulse a valve of the hydraulic ciruit burst. And with two gears always being coupled in a seamless gearbox it was the end of the race for the Australian.
Horner: ''Webber was the biggest misadventurer of the race. Only at that point of the track there's a tube riding underneath and exactly when he wanted to shift down this signal had to come up.''
A big shame for Webber indeed, at his second stop he would stayed out four laps longer than Alonso. So he would have lead the race temporarily. He wouldn't have been able to keep the Spaniard behind him though, Horner: ''Alonso was on fire. But Webber would have been assured of P2.''
Courtesy of AFCA from autosport forum:
It wasn't a bump, it was a tube ! When Webber wanted to get engaged in third gear whilst braking down for a corner a tube went past exactly at that spot. Horner: ''Its electronics sent out some kind of signal which our gearbox control system misunderstood. Instead of engaging in third gear it engaged in seventh gear.''
Due to the wrong pulse a valve of the hydraulic ciruit burst. And with two gears always being coupled in a seamless gearbox it was the end of the race for the Australian.
Horner: ''Webber was the biggest misadventurer of the race. Only at that point of the track there's a tube riding underneath and exactly when he wanted to shift down this signal had to come up.''
A big shame for Webber indeed, at his second stop he would stayed out four laps longer than Alonso. So he would have lead the race temporarily. He wouldn't have been able to keep the Spaniard behind him though, Horner: ''Alonso was on fire. But Webber would have been assured of P2.''
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: LoudHoward (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 13:14
Quote:Duffer
Whitey, you are totally ignoring the issues with the RB4 breaks toward the end of the race. Also the possibility of tyre degradation or some other racing event.
Pft, only 3 drivers out there set their fastest laps later in the race than DC, his whole "brakes fading, car undriveable" thing didn't seem so believable to me, at least relative to the field.
Jez and Duffer playing for the same team though to pot stir, it brings a tear of joy to my eye. What if Webber didn't break down, we wouldn't get to see this touching moment!
[www.patronise.us] - Come for the detailed comical analysis. Stay a long time for the inconsistant updates.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:10:02:13:16:23 by LoudHoward.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Jock_298 (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 13:20
Quote:LoudHowardQuote:Duffer
Whitey, you are totally ignoring the issues with the RB4 breaks toward the end of the race. Also the possibility of tyre degradation or some other racing event.
Pft, only 3 drivers out there set their fastest laps later in the race than DC, his whole "brakes fading, car undriveable" thing didn't seem so believable to me, at least relative to the field.
Jez and Duffer playing for the same team though to pot stir, it brings a tear of joy to my eye. What if Webber didn't break down, we wouldn't get to see this touching moment!
In Vino Veritas
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 02/10/2008 13:26
I am no Jez fan, but what if's are pretty lame.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: SydneyF1Fan (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2008 03:35
"It wasn't a bump, it was a tube!"
I had to read this a couple of times, but I presume this means "tube" as in "underground train" (ie. the Singapore Metro) as opposed to a spare bit of piping on the track!
So I take it that the electronics from the train interfered with the RBR gearbox. That's a bit of a worry!!!
Could be a challenge for them to reproduce that in the wind tunnel!!
I had to read this a couple of times, but I presume this means "tube" as in "underground train" (ie. the Singapore Metro) as opposed to a spare bit of piping on the track!
So I take it that the electronics from the train interfered with the RBR gearbox. That's a bit of a worry!!!
Could be a challenge for them to reproduce that in the wind tunnel!!
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Alison G S (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2008 07:00
Another report said it was a tram!
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Keppel (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2008 07:42
The report about the tram .... wowza 
David Coulthard: From Pitbox to Pundit
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Duffer (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2008 11:18
I think it was an anomoly caused by the original Starship Enterprise exiting a worm hole 4km above Singapore.
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Jock_298 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2008 13:50
That's the trouble with Tribbles !
In Vino Veritas
In Vino Veritas
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Alison G S (IP Logged)
Date: 03/10/2008 15:06
Quote:That's the trouble with Tribbles !
Jock.......... you cannot be old enough to remember that episode the first time round! I am glad that the repeats are meeting a whole new generation!
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: Jock_298 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2008 10:15
Quote:Alison G S
Jock.......... you cannot be old enough to remember that episode the first time round! I am glad that the repeats are meeting a whole new generation!
I don't know why you think I'm so young Alison..in fact I reckon I'm old enough to be your.....toyboy....but seriously, I didn't see that episode on the original screening and I don't believe you did either :-)
I learned about it from watching the DS9 episode Trials and Tribble-ations and I just had to hunt down the original episode and watch it
Re: WEBBER DENIED PROBABLE PODIUM FINISH
Posted by: boci (IP Logged)
Date: 04/10/2008 11:01
now webbers gone from unlucky to freakishly unlucky...didnt the socceroos have a curse on them that they got lifted..he better go and talk to the soccer boys and find out who he has to bend over for
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
More Motorcycle Racing Online headlines
- Podium joy for John McGuinness at Macau Grand Prix
- Stuart Easton wins the 2008 Macau Grand Prix
- Conor Cummins takes final Macau GP pole position
- Michael Rutter on provisional pole at the Macau GP
- Casey Stoner wins MotoGP race of Valencia
- Valentino Rossi wins Malaysian MotoGP race
- Casey Stoner wins home race in MotoGP
- Valentino Rossi wins race and MotoGP title
- Valentino Rossi wins in washed out Indy GP
Motorcycle Racing Online latest threads
Motorcycle Racing Online Poll
